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Were there internships or did you just dive straight in? I also searched Google for prop trading companies with physical addresses in Singapore and went down to their doors to personally submit my resume to them.

Will you be asked to leave if you struggle to make profit consistently? Yes, proprietary trading is extremely competitive. Generally, most firms would likely give you some leeway, maybe 3 to 6 months to become profitable.

An eye opening article, of what to expect, for those of us in our infancy to trading professionally. What a great story, it express true value of determination of doing something to achieve something great. My trading history clearly shows my utmost grit and passion, it shows my slow progress after lost all the money but never quit and now progressing in good pace. I am truly grateful to you and I am glad that I have managed to found out about you and as I said before you are one of those people who really want to help others.

I can almost see myself treading your footsteps! I was playing CS and all but I got luckier on O levels and did well enough to graduate with a diploma with merit in Banking and Finance. I do hope to land into a prop trading job to really give me that intense training and environment to really learn and absorb from the best! Would you consider further elaborating on the life of a prop trader in subsequent posts?

What are the sacrifices you had to make, best moments, worst moments, etc. I would love to read and understand more about this career path! Hope to hear from you! Haha I just came back from ATEC in Taiwan and those mountains really taught me a thing or two about mental strength! Thanks for taking time to create these kind of posts for interested readers like me! Just a quick question, how did you go about looking for these prop trading companies?

As for your question, I simply dive straight in. Some firms would put you on probation anywhere from months before deciding whether to keep you. Track record is not important, your willingness to learn is. Some lesser, so it really depends. i never be in good profit since started trading….

I want learn trading tips coz I have lost much…now I have only few money.. Pls mail me useful tips from that I can recover my losses….. Having a proper trading education would. I am not a professional trader but what I can say to you if you allow then please close all your position immediately to save the rest of the money, once you read through all the above mentioned pages provided by Rayner and when you feel that you can open a position with a clear plan then use the real money otherwise practice with a demo account for couple of months at the moment.

What an inspirational story and one that I hope to emulate in my own way. Yes 5 years is definitely more than enough to find out whether it is suitable for you. Im offerred a technical IT job at a european prop trading firm in Singapore. At the same time I have offer from an investment bank for similar role with same base pay. Cons of prop — long working hours — stick ur ass to the chair whole day — eat meals only on desks — uncertainty of bonus amount.

Pros of Prop — less work pressure — no corporate ,casual work environment — perks like free breakfast and lunch with company events once a while.

Ultimately you need to ask yourself what you want. To be a trader and suffer the uncertainty it brings or to have something more certain but may not be what you want to do. Im not a trader , im an IT guy. And im curious to know what the usual percentage of bonus looks like in buy side firms…. if it can be drastically different than sell side like banks….. if you can advice plz.

What a great success story Rayner through hard work,commitment and perserverance. you deserve it mate and as always your willing to help others on there journey thank you Rayner. I know of firms that will allow you to trade the firms capital and give you time, but expect you to pay for the office space, or you pay high fees for training and get limited time, which is even worse. Did you have to pay monthly desk fees at the prop firm or did they cover all expenses for you?

This post is really very helpful as I was worried that no trading firm would hire me as I am not a profitable trader. Though I am into markets for 4 years.

I started with a Trading Firm in India in and worked there for months and after that I got job offer from one of the top brokerage firm in India, Religare Securities Ltd as a Equity Analyst.

I worked there for one year and I have to leave the job because of the family issues. After leaving Religare, I continued to trade on my personal account but till now I am not into profits, though I am learning well and I think I am maturing as a trader.

Along with doing job for around 18 months, I also completed CMT level 2 and appeared for level 3 but could not clear it. Now I am well prepared for my comeback into trading. I desperately want to join a Prop trading firm which can help me in brushing and can provide me base for my passion for being a profitable trader. But try to show them your track records and your trading thought process. Thanks for your reply.

I can understand what you said. Actually I am not looking to work with any Indian prop desk as there are very few of them here and most of them are new who cannot provide the kind of mentoring I need to grill myself. Can you suggest me which country I can apply to.

I heard singapore has lots of professional Trading firms. Howdy Rayner, I stumbled upon your blog by chance and found it very interesting. prop firms and private equities. I enjoyed marginal success for the first yrs but suffered devastated lossess in due to ill discipline and greed but has since recovered and retired in Keep it up, Cheers!

Hi Rayner, thank you for sharing your experience with us. Do you have any tips on getting an interview in the first place? Search for the job portals every week. Hi Rayner, I have an offer from a prop firm but have read so many negative reviews about the firm. I am wondering do all prop firms have negative reviews?

Also did you apply for prop firms in Singapore or UK? Then I would be wary. I apply for the ones in Singapore. I read your blog and boom!! It was really nice hearing a fellow singaporean doing the things that he liked especially in the financial industry and is so consistent in every manner.

Lost, busting my trading on several occasions and the lists go on and on. If you happen to be sydney, please let me know. Would love to catch up with you on a nice drinking session. Great read and very inspiring I have learnt a lot from you ever since I got into trading you are such an inspiration , and a great teacher I went from hating trading to loving it. although I still trade off the demo I can see improvement. never heard of proprietary trading before but will check it out thanks.

Maybe you can help me find some direction. First off we all owe a lot of appreciation to you and others who are willing to share their experiences and resources to help better ourselves and our trading careers. As a teenager i was always interested in financial markets but life happened and interests pointed elsewhere. may have. Those things may have been available, but I had no sort of mentor-ship or guidance. So when my fate brought me to the markets, I literally had to start from scratch.

I started with the basics; business structure, market terms, how to read balance sheets, SEC reports etc. After a few months of watching my money camp out then losing money from broker fees from moving it to other dividend stocks, i found the other side of the market. Next step I learned how to properly use charts and order flow to better see what i was getting into. A lot of rabbit holes and misinterpretation followed. But I pushed on and kept paying tuitions learning as I went.

At some point I realized that when i would watch a video or read something that the topic would be something I had taught myself through reverse engineering or at least identified a week or so before. This is how i would later calibrate my learning curve. So I thought i was ready and funded my first offshore leveraged account. I was so angry I turned off my phone and just reflected on it and what I did wrong and how to fix it. Of course even a back-tested strategy requires human discipline and self control.

So i dug into psychology books and videos to beat the framework of a non biased trade mentality into my head. Everything was sinking in and I started thinking I had what it takes and my trades were becoming more and more green.

One day I took a big loss on a low float momentum stock from losing my wifi connection while on my way to an appointment for work and decide that was it, I was gonna go at it full time.

I am generally a technical trader that uses market depth order flow and other indicators with as much fundamental influence like offerings and news catalyst to choose and manage my trades, but there is so much more to trading skills or talent. I found myself jumping from trade to trade and watching as EVERY trade I had exited for small losses or stopped out and was too impatient to wait for another entry do exactly the charts or strategy had told me they would do.

Then I started to fight the urge to jump trades and ended up holding longer than I should from pulling my stops at the last minute. So 6 months after going full time here I am. Before anyone bashes me i want to add that I KNOW I was wrong by going at it full time without proper preparation and would never suggest it and hope anyone reading this can learn from my experience.

Please give me some advice or direction on how to move forward. My spirits are still strong and more determined and willing to sacrifice even more than I already have. I feel like a boxer who gets gets excited to go into a bout only to get knocked out every time, but is more excited to go into the next bout than he was in the previous one even though every fight is an exhibition match and not even for the title. Simply because he LOVES TO FIGHT! Anything you or anyone could add will be greatly appreciated and thanks again for providing a place for me to write this in the first place.

Thank you for sharing this wonderful journey of yours. Thanks again sir. Keep up the awesome work of yours. And keep sharing. Love from India. Thank you Rayner.. Giving us motivation and guiding. Now have to rewind again and to start from beginning and do improve Wat was wrong.

I have read many forums about trading Services but this forum is different from all. I am really impressed the way you have written the forum. Thank you so much for sharing with us. I enjoy reading your blog. Please log in again. The login page will open in a new tab.

After logging in you can close it and return to this page. How to Get a Proprietary Trading Job — A Complete Guide. You love trading. Your dream job is to be a proprietary trader.

But reality sinks in. Or perhaps.. How to become a prop trader? What is proprietary trading? The instruments traded can be anything from options, futures, currencies, derivatives etc. No surprise to see many fresh graduates applying for such a role, me included. So what are they looking for? Let me tell you, as this will be crucial on how to become a proprietary trader… Proprietary trading jobs, what is required?

The same goes for trading. You must have a passion for it in order to succeed. So what is a passion for trading? It is not reading a few books on trading and thinking you got it. Instead… Passion is devoting countless hours each day, weeks, months and even years to improve yourself. Does it sound like hard work? This is the passion for trading. How can you prove it? This will make you stand out from the thousands of applicants you are competing with.

But wait. Passion alone is not enough. Read on to find out what else is required. Grit Studies have shown that Grit plays an important factor as well. But what is grit? Grit is the ability to keep moving forward even when the shit hits the fence. Most traders will quit and stay away from trading after blowing up a few trading accounts. The bottom line is this: You will be living on a shoestring budget for a period of time, until you are consistently profitable.

Quick with numbers is a good thing The trading approach of most proprietary trading firms is scalping, arbitraging or day trading. So how do they test you? Some take it one step further by requiring you to pass a math test before granting an interview. And here are some commonly asked questions: Why do you want to be a trader? Can you survive without a fixed pay? How long are you willing to give yourself?

What trading books have you read? What is your trading approach to the markets?

Last Updated: July 13, By Rayner Teo. Proprietary trading is when a bank, firm or other any financial institution trades on its own account rather than on behalf of a customer.

But the interesting aspect about trading is that your IQ has little to do with successful trading. I have seen traders who made millions with an O levels education, and traders who failed even with a masters degree. Neither is it going to forums looking for the best trading strategy. These are hobbies and hobbies cost money. Passion is devoting countless hours each day, weeks, months and even years to improve yourself.

To get better and better each day, yet staying humble all the way. You will be reading hundreds of trading books, spending infinite hours watching trading videos, and having a trading journal to record down your progress as a trader.

The best way is to start trading on your own retail account. By showing the interviewer your own trading records, it tells them you are passionate about trading and actually walk the talk. Because it tells them you are accepting your current status a losing trader , and want to improve your trading by joining a proprietary trading firm.

Bring along your trading journal and charts during the interview. Then use them to explain the thought process of your trades. Studies have shown that Grit plays an important factor as well. But those with grit will constantly reflect their actions and seek to better themselves, which separates the winners from the losers.

Many times I felt that profitable trading is an illusion but never once did I considered giving up. There was always something in me that pushed me forward, and today I realized it is none other than grit. Best you are not married with kids, have no outstanding loans or any form of financial liabilities. Most proprietary trading firms operate on the basis of giving traders a basic allowance, and a profit sharing scheme. Also, trading has a steep learning curve, which can take a trader anywhere from 6 to 18 months to be consistently profitable.

You will be living on a shoestring budget for a period of time, until you are consistently profitable. Thus it makes sense to reduce or have no liabilities at all.

Most proprietary trading firms will look for this factor, and this explains why they tend to hire fresh graduates below 30 years old. You can consider doing mathematical speed test a few weeks prior to your interview to improve your mental calculation.

No surprise I only passed 2 subjects in secondary 3, and my parents had to beg my principal to allow me to proceed onto secondary 4. During secondary 4 it was my O levels and miraculously I scored 20 points which allowed me to study at a local polytechnic. I went to Temasek Polytechnic to study info-communications, which was one of the few choices available to me, given my mediocre results.

I was enlisted into the 1st Commando Battalion, and it was possibly the best thing that happens to me when I was 19 years old. From being mediocre all my life to being placed in an elite fighting unit, I was in for a culture shock. Birds of a feather flock together. Core values like courage disciplined and fighting spirit are drilled into each and every one of us.

We were expected to complete it within 24 hours. It was painful, to say the least, after the 30km mark, every step forward is like stepping on shattered glass. Because every step I walked sent a sharp jolt of pain towards my nervous system.

During this period, I started reading books on trading and investments. This sparked my interest in the financial markets and helped me decide which course to enroll for my degree.

Since being a Commando taught me to strive for nothing but the best, I was determined to attain a 1st Class Honors, no matter what it takes. In my 1st year of studies, a Forex broker came to my school and organized a trading competition. Me being curious, I took part in it and not surprisingly busted my trading account within 2 days. This was the official start towards my trading endeavor and made me certain I wanted a career in proprietary trading.

With these 2 powerful questions, I attained my First Class Honors and was set on being a proprietary trader no matter what it took. This tells the interviewer I am determined to succeed, being a nobody in school to attaining my 1st Class Honors. Also, it shows my passion for trading since I am trading my own account.

I love to share a story because it engages the interviewers and give them an idea of my character. If you want to learn more, you can read this post here. It changed so that more and more regular people started getting into trading, and proprietary trading became more and more accessible to them.

But is it still the same as sending a job application, going into interviews, and having a trading desk in a physical office? Of course, the downside is that you have to trade their preferred broker, limiting the markets you trade. Were there internships or did you just dive straight in? I also searched Google for prop trading companies with physical addresses in Singapore and went down to their doors to personally submit my resume to them. Will you be asked to leave if you struggle to make profit consistently?

Yes, proprietary trading is extremely competitive. Generally, most firms would likely give you some leeway, maybe 3 to 6 months to become profitable. An eye opening article, of what to expect, for those of us in our infancy to trading professionally.

What a great story, it express true value of determination of doing something to achieve something great. My trading history clearly shows my utmost grit and passion, it shows my slow progress after lost all the money but never quit and now progressing in good pace. I am truly grateful to you and I am glad that I have managed to found out about you and as I said before you are one of those people who really want to help others.

I can almost see myself treading your footsteps! I was playing CS and all but I got luckier on O levels and did well enough to graduate with a diploma with merit in Banking and Finance. I do hope to land into a prop trading job to really give me that intense training and environment to really learn and absorb from the best! Would you consider further elaborating on the life of a prop trader in subsequent posts?

What are the sacrifices you had to make, best moments, worst moments, etc. I would love to read and understand more about this career path! Hope to hear from you!

Haha I just came back from ATEC in Taiwan and those mountains really taught me a thing or two about mental strength! Thanks for taking time to create these kind of posts for interested readers like me!

Just a quick question, how did you go about looking for these prop trading companies? As for your question, I simply dive straight in. Some firms would put you on probation anywhere from months before deciding whether to keep you. Track record is not important, your willingness to learn is. Some lesser, so it really depends. i never be in good profit since started trading….

I want learn trading tips coz I have lost much…now I have only few money.. Pls mail me useful tips from that I can recover my losses….. Having a proper trading education would. I am not a professional trader but what I can say to you if you allow then please close all your position immediately to save the rest of the money, once you read through all the above mentioned pages provided by Rayner and when you feel that you can open a position with a clear plan then use the real money otherwise practice with a demo account for couple of months at the moment.

What an inspirational story and one that I hope to emulate in my own way. Yes 5 years is definitely more than enough to find out whether it is suitable for you. Im offerred a technical IT job at a european prop trading firm in Singapore.

At the same time I have offer from an investment bank for similar role with same base pay. Cons of prop — long working hours — stick ur ass to the chair whole day — eat meals only on desks — uncertainty of bonus amount. Pros of Prop — less work pressure — no corporate ,casual work environment — perks like free breakfast and lunch with company events once a while. Ultimately you need to ask yourself what you want. To be a trader and suffer the uncertainty it brings or to have something more certain but may not be what you want to do.

Im not a trader , im an IT guy. And im curious to know what the usual percentage of bonus looks like in buy side firms…. if it can be drastically different than sell side like banks….. if you can advice plz. What a great success story Rayner through hard work,commitment and perserverance.

you deserve it mate and as always your willing to help others on there journey thank you Rayner. I know of firms that will allow you to trade the firms capital and give you time, but expect you to pay for the office space, or you pay high fees for training and get limited time, which is even worse. Did you have to pay monthly desk fees at the prop firm or did they cover all expenses for you?

This post is really very helpful as I was worried that no trading firm would hire me as I am not a profitable trader. Though I am into markets for 4 years. I started with a Trading Firm in India in and worked there for months and after that I got job offer from one of the top brokerage firm in India, Religare Securities Ltd as a Equity Analyst. I worked there for one year and I have to leave the job because of the family issues.

After leaving Religare, I continued to trade on my personal account but till now I am not into profits, though I am learning well and I think I am maturing as a trader.

If I did poorly for my exams, I would ask myself what went wrong? Thanks for your reply. Candidates must have experience researching, developing, and trading high frequency market making strategies, and an interest in the crypto space. Internal Revenue Service. After a few months of watching my money camp out then losing money from broker fees from moving it to other dividend stocks, i found the other side of the market.

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